00:12
Sarah Stone
Hello and welcome to let's Talk Social Value, a podcast where we explore what creating value for society means and the practical ways you can go about creating it. My name's Sarah and my guests work in different areas of social value across public, private and third sector organisations, from public sector procurement to ESG and sustainability, social enterprise and impact measurement. I'll be asking them about their work and what they've learned and they will be sharing their tips and experience to help us all make our organisations better. It's National Apprenticeship Week, so we've created this special episode for you on Flexi apprenticeships. They are something that's quite new. I only heard about them recently and so I thought we'd do a deep dive into them and find out all about them from somebody who naturally knows.

00:55
Sarah Stone
So my guest is Sadie Besley, who is Randstad's Divisional Managing Director for Professional Talent Solutions. Carry on and listen as they ask her what they are, how they work, how they're different from a traditional apprenticeship and how you set one up.

01:08
 Sadie Besley
Well, the Flexi job apprenticeship programme offers the ability for learners to take on short term placements at multiple companies, providing, I guess, greater experience across a range of different projects for employers. They're now able to access an untapped pool of talent in a really different way, most likely attracting a more diverse workforce as a result.

01:30
Speaker 3
So does that mean they're not employed by, like the traditional apprenticeship? The apprentice is employed by one company and then the training is normally provided. Sometimes you can do it in house, but sometimes it's done by an external provider. Is that not how these things work then?

01:45
 Sadie Besley
It is really different to that. And in fact, your understanding of a traditional apprenticeship is exactly right. In this case, the agency fully employs the apprentice, so we give them a permanent contract. So they're fully employed and fully invested in their learning for the whole period of the programme for them. They may work at multiple companies in that professional sector that they are training in, but that is down to the agency to own each of those placements for them, but work alongside organisations that can really add value to their learning experience.

02:18
Speaker 3
Wow. Okay, so in this instance, the agency would be Randstad.

02:21
 Sadie Besley
Yes.

02:22
Speaker 3
And are there other agencies that do it? It's not just you?

02:25
 Sadie Besley
No, there's a few other agencies and the names and contact details of those are available on the Department for Education's website. What actually happened? There was a pilot programme that took place just over a year ago. I guess the government identified that nearly 3% of the UK workforce, particularly in England, is working on a flexible basis for lots and lots of different reasons that suits their individual arrangements. And many of those work through agencies organisations that work with agencies on a regular basis. So they wanted to provide an opportunity to learn for those individuals, which is about a million people in the uk. Right. So there was a trial that took place which ended in the middle of last year and then only last October, a new programme was launched for new providers to enter the program formally.

03:12
 Sadie Besley
And you're right, there's only a handful of national providers that are working on this program.

03:16
Speaker 3
So exciting. I've got so many questions. So you guys employ them, you said you give them a permanent contract, you provide them with the training. So are you the training provider as well? In this instance, yeah.

03:26
 Sadie Besley
Most other organisations on the program actually are using an external provider, but in Ransad's case, we have our own internal apprenticeship program already running through Pareto, which is really established. So that means, I suppose, that for any employee that wants to use FLEXI apprenticeship, we can help design a programme specific to them as well.

03:45
Speaker 3
So you provide the training and then you employ them, but then, I take it, do you need employers to offer them effectively the work experience, the work placement part of the apprenticeship?

03:55
 Sadie Besley
Yes. So we are obviously already work with a number of super brands and employers all around the country, but we're talking to employers now about taking on FLEXI apprentices to, I guess, not just supplement their workforce, but help skill their workforce in ways in which they've not been able to do so before. So here's a live example. Right? So if you think about schools and teaching assistants during the pandemic and post pandemic, teaching assistants have left that profession in their droves for better paid jobs, unfortunately. And it is having an impact on staffing actually, in schools. Real life, everyday problem which lots of headteachers talk to us about.

04:33
 Sadie Besley
So one of the programmes that we're designing is a Level 3 apprenticeship for teaching assistants and we're working alongside multi academy trusts where they can have a pool of teaching assistants that work across the whole MAT trust and we'll train them before they go into the workplace, but actually train them for the following 12 to 14 months so that they fully qualify as well. For those multi academy trusts, those schools, they're not just getting a skilled workforce, that workforce is getting more skilled during that time and they're giving back and adding to the workforce, which is a real problem.

05:07
Speaker 3
Yeah, we've got real shortages. My mind is going, because I can think of loads of sectors where this would be really valuable. So one of the areas that I do quite a bit of work in is in renewables and onshore wind. And it's really difficult for us if we're, you know, in the middle or starting a construction project, it's only two or three years. Thinking about how we can get apprenticeships integrated into that's really tricky. And I've often thought it'd be amazing to have like a bank of ground workers and HGV drivers and the things that we struggle to recruit for that the companies in the supply chain could then draw down off. So are you saying this kind of model might work for that?

05:45
 Sadie Besley
It definitely would, because what we're seeing in green and renewable energies is that the workforce is available to them, but they do need some kind of reskilling to divert them into the right areas and I guess for the talent, the candidates to be able to see that they can make that transition. So, yes, we design programs specifically for that in green and renewables.

06:07
Speaker 3
Okay, so how long does a FLEXI apprenticeship last? Is it the same length of time as I'm going to say normal?

06:13
 Sadie Besley
Yeah, traditional apprenticeship? Yeah, it's exactly the same kind of program. It can vary the amount of time depending on what level that the learner is going through. So a level three might typically take 12 to 14 months, dependent on the individual. Sometimes it's a little bit longer, depends on that person. Right. But we go all the way up through to level seven apprenticeships and obviously those take longer.

06:35
Speaker 3
Oh, I didn't realise that. So I thought that the actual apprenticeships, the standards were different to the traditional ones. Are they the same, Is it exactly the same standards?

06:44
 Sadie Besley
Very similar standards, yes. Which is why you need to be partnered with a qualified apprenticeship provider to provide able to put these in place.

06:53
Speaker 3
Are they available? Are flexi apprenticeships available in all the standards that traditional apprenticeships are available in, or is there a different list?

07:00
 Sadie Besley
It's pretty much the same list. But the difference here is that the Department for Education are talking to us about new roles that this learning could be offered in, such as green and renewables, teaching assistants. And we have the ability to design programmes specifically for large employers, which taps into, I suppose, aspects of the traditional list, but also bespoke it specific to that either location or that employer who.

07:27
Speaker 3
Pays for them, how much do they cost? And so say if you're a levy payer, how does it work?

07:31
 Sadie Besley
It works in two ways. They're costing. So for an employer, I guess they get the benefits of using an agency and they pay an agency in the traditional way, probably in the arrangement that they've already got set up with the agency, but quite traditional ways. And I guess there's a sliding scale of how that works, but then their learning is paid for to the apprenticeship company itself, the apprenticeship provider, via the levy.

07:55
Speaker 3
So the big difference is obviously the salary of the worker, which is paid by you guys directly, but indirectly by the employer through you. So in its normal hourly rates, it's not like a different higher rate because you're adding the apprenticeship on, it's just whatever it would normally be for that particular sector and role.

08:15
 Sadie Besley
Yeah, it can vary, dependent on the, I guess the life cycle of the individual and their learning. Because I think we have to recognise some learners, not all of them, but some are coming with literally no skills, which is why in some cases we're spending a few weeks training them, ready to go into the workplace as well. But the apprenticeship program is available to anybody of any age. So most people are bringing a level of skills. I guess in this case is a recognition that they've being able to be checked and made compliant by an agency as well.

08:45
Speaker 3
Is the mentoring side of the apprenticeship, is that covered by you?

08:49
 Sadie Besley
Yeah, we cover that and I think that's something that we just as an organisation feel passionately about. So just to put that into context, we already provide mentoring support to about 20,000 people a year, either in the workplace or in education at the moment. So that's something that we think will fit well into the apprenticeship programme to, I guess, help them stay on program, stay confident and help them through their learning.

09:13
Speaker 3
That's something that's actually quite a big challenge for employers, isn't it, how they can provide them with that mentoring in the workplace and support. And so the fact that you guys do it feels like a bit of a bonus.

09:23
 Sadie Besley
Yeah. And look, they're employed by us, they're part of our permanent workforce, so we want to be able to support them in any way we can.

09:29
Speaker 3
Brilliant. Can you have one apprentice? So say it's me, I'm apprentice, I'm employed by Randstad, but I've got multiple companies providing me with that, like work based experience. Is that what happens? You know, I might do an apprenticeship with you, but I've got company A one day a week and I'm in company B another day. How does it work?

09:49
 Sadie Besley
In theory, that could happen. Sarah, what we recommend is that there's some level of consistency for a couple of months at a time if possible, for that individual, just so that they get the best experience in their field setting, they want to learn at the same time.

10:03
Speaker 3
Yeah. So it might be that they work for company A, for a six month contract and then their contract ends and you get them a new one. But the point is they get to carry on with their apprenticeship.

10:12
 Sadie Besley
Absolutely. They carry on and stay employed, which I think is super for them.

10:16
Speaker 3
Yeah, totally. The other group of people that I feel like it would really work for is especially like with the work I do where you've got a contract and you can't necessarily. It's really difficult to create apprenticeships on that contract. I think it might work for that.

10:29
 Sadie Besley
Yeah, absolutely. Because with the agency being the long term employer for the individual and they're getting great benefits as a result of it, I guess there's no risk for the organisation. And I suppose once they reach the end of the apprenticeship, they can either go permanent with an organisation or we can make them permanent elsewhere as a fully qualified individual.

10:48
Speaker 3
So if they get a permanent role at the end with the employer, does the employer have to pay a sort of finder's fee to you guys to keep them on or is that all covered as part of the apprenticeship thing?

10:58
 Sadie Besley
So that's all covered as part of what you agree up front. The idea is, you know, just like we all feel about apprentices, is that it's an avenue to permanent work and long term career development. So it's our view that everybody should have the opportunity to go permanent.

11:12
Speaker 3
Yeah. And you talked at the beginning how they might be really useful for like people with barriers or who are underrepresented in the workforce. Do you have any specific sort of program or activity that you do to target particular groups?

11:23
 Sadie Besley
I suppose as part of the organisation that we are really, we've got lots of employers already come to us to help them attract and retain a diverse workforce. Right. So all those avenues that we've got in place already to find those people who wouldn't necessarily come to employment through the traditional means are open to anybody who wants to do that through the.

11:45
Speaker 3
Apprenticeship programme, it'd be quite good for returners, I imagine.

11:49
 Sadie Besley
Returners, definitely. And I think often returners, they actually don't need too much reskilling, they just need confidence, don't they? And they just need building up. So I guess the joy of this for me is that we can also dovetail it with our mental health provision and our mentoring programs so that we can give them qualified support to give them confidence back in the workplace as well.

12:10
Speaker 3
Yeah. How do you set one up so if someone's interested, what can they do?

12:14
 Sadie Besley
Well, get in touch for a starter and then we'll have a conversation with them about what they're looking for and what they're trying to achieve through that program. If it's a program we've already got in place, then that's easy to do. If it's a longer term solution that is. We've not got it in place, but we know that they want to do this on a long term basis and probably have multiple opportunities for apprentices. We can design a programme that just takes a few months to get up and running.

12:40
Speaker 3
Amazing. And so we'll put the contact details in the show notes underneath the episode. Thank you very much. That's brilliant.

12:48
Sarah Stone
Thank you so much to Sadie for your time and expertise. That was another super informative episode. As always, all the information and links to everything we talked about will be shared in the show notes, including how you can reach Sadie and her team if you think they might be for you. You've been listening to let's Talk Social Value. I'm Sarah Stone. The show was produced by Sam Taylor and edited by Chris Keane. You can find all our episodes on our website or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And and if you found this useful, then please do share it with your networks and consider leaving us a review. As always, we'd love to hear what you think and are always looking out for new ideas for guests. So please do reach out.

13:23
Sarah Stone
You can find me on LinkedIn or contact me on our website www.samtaler.co.uk.